Non-Beta Alpha Clearing Week: Ben Harrison Managing Director, BNY Mellon | Pershing

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Ryan Morfin:
Welcome to NON-BETA ALPHA, I’m Ryan Morfin. On today’s episode we have Ben Harrison from Pershing talking to us about the changes in the custody landscape and what it means for advisors. This is NON-BETA ALPHA. (singing). Ben, welcome to the show. Thanks for joining us today.
Ben Harrison:
Thanks for having me, Ryan.
Ryan Morfin:
Well, we are living in unprecedented times right now. Volatility in Q2 was robust, the custodian landscape is changing. I would love to pick your brain today about some of the changes at Pershing, how you guys are deploying your leadership and resources through the changing environment that we’re in. And just to learn a little bit about how you guys are handling this new environment and what you think is on the horizon for financial advisors and RIAs and broker-dealers.
Ben Harrison:
Sure. That’d be terrific, Ryan. And as you mentioned it’s definitely an evolving marketplace and world that we live in. And I see that you’re coming on this program via Texas and in a suit and I’m in New Jersey in a golf shirt, so that’ll set the stage here for the environment that I think that we’re in for the foreseeable future. So looking forward to spending some time going over these issues with you today.
Ryan Morfin:
I really appreciate it. It’s funny, like you mentioned, Texas is open for business. We had some advisors show up to the office today for a tour and it’s funny, it’s really a tale of two markets. And I think the East Coast got hit harder earlier. I don’t think Texas is really appreciative of what’s coming our way. I have an inkling just because I see all my colleagues and friends on the East Coast and West Coast and Europe and it’s going to be a wild summer, I think.
Ben Harrison:
Absolutely, absolutely.
Ryan Morfin:
Well, I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about some of the landscapes maybe in the custodian industry. There’s the Schwab-TD merger, there’s been the race to lower fees, huge increases in IT spending across the industry in fintech. What are some of the dynamics or the fundamentals that you’re watching as an executive in this space?
Ben Harrison:
Sure. We obviously lead with what’s going on in the pandemic but there’s been a tremendous amount of disruption in the space for really the last several years in a culmination that we saw as you pointed out in terms of some of the industry consolidation that kicked off last fall in regards to some of the retail custodians coming together. Also this price war towards a zero commission environment really gave us the opportunity to really validate everything that we knew that was going on in the marketplace around our strategy. We’re the only custodian that’s solely focused on helping RIAs grow and we think that that’s a unique opportunity for us and with disruption comes opportunity, so there’s a lot of different evolving dynamics in the marketplace.
Ben Harrison:
The main driver, however, is that the fiduciary model is winning and there is a movement towards holistic wealth management that is not slowing down. We see investors actually driving this demand and that is leading advisors, advisory firms to this space and everybody wants to participate in the financial advice market. So it’s we continue to see a bull market for financial advice and that’s positioning us well as well as firms like yourself and those that want to participate in this space.
Ryan Morfin:
We have the traditional custodians but you’ve got new entrants, maybe Morgan Stanley buying E-Trade or Goldman buying, I guess it was Folio buying United Capital. Do you think the wirehouses are trying to come into this space or are they a potential looming threat for the custody industry?
Ben Harrison:
Yeah. We’ve seen a number of shifts in terms of different players coming into the space as you know. And I think that that’s again a validation of our industry and those that want to participate in this segment of the marketplace because it’s the fastest growing segment of the financial advisor space. I think for years we’ve seen the wirehouses think about potentially how they’ll tap into this side of the business. We’ve seen Wells Fargo has had fina for many, many years. We’ve seen others… The emergence of private client divisions and ways in which to serve the upper echelon of an advisor base.
Ben Harrison:
I think it’s going to be a tough road for wirehouses to really embrace the full open architecture and independent model. But we’re going to continue to see new iterations and ways in which firms reimagine the way that they serve the advisor landscape. And there’s no question that some of the top teams at the wirehouses are looking for a new home.
Ryan Morfin:
And it’s also interesting. I mean, there’s been lot of… We’re calling it, it went with the digital moment, a lot of focus on fintech. Companies like Addepar are coming in. Are they starting to encroach beyond their traditional portfolio reporting? Or do you think, are there risks from some of the fintech companies on the horizon for the custodians?
Ben Harrison:
Well, the idea behind all of this is really client experience is at the core of what is required in order to have a differentiated solution for advisors. The way that we think about it is we believe that a fully integrated solution set around our core technology, the ability to integrate very effectively with a variety of different fintech providers. Addepar is a great example, we’ve got a great relationship with Addepar. And this ecosystem is going to continue to grow and evolve and there’s going to be room for many different providers to play a role in all of this.
Ben Harrison:
Back to around the digitization of the business this pandemic has absolutely underscored the fact that digitization and technology are business-imperative they’re no longer a nice-to-have. Those firms that aren’t investing significantly in their experience in a virtually-led, digitally-led type of environment, they’re not going to participate on the upside of growth. Again, I think that there’s room for multiple players and it’s about curating the solutions together and providing some choice, but also a clear vision towards an integrated experience that is going to win in the end.
Ryan Morfin:
And do you see, I mean, given that there’s been this pressure down in probably increased CapEx for the entire industry, do you see in the next few years CapEx cycles, will there be a lot more emphasis from the custodians on more tech spending or have you guys made a lot of that backend in the last few years? Is it going to be an ongoing consistent spend or do you guys feel like the digital infrastructure you guys have been building, I know you spent a lot of money on lately, keeps you up… You can amortize it down for a few years?
Ben Harrison:
Yeah. We see it continuing to increase. And what we’re doing at BNY Mellon-Pershing is we’re doubling down on the advisory space and really investing a significant amount of our capital in building out solutions and talent in the RIA space and the wealth advisory space across our firm. From a CapEx perspective, and I think that this is really interesting, in the environment that we’re in much of our spending has been on foundational items. About the resiliency across our platform we were able to move to a work-from-home environment really, really quickly.
Ben Harrison:
And that’s all of the questions that… Before this happened nobody asked in due diligence of visits to come see us to ask, “How prepared are you for a pandemic?” There’s a bunch of… You think about the iceberg and the tip of the iceberg of everything that you see and touch and feel in our world, underneath that there’s just a whole foundation of us being able to provide strength, stability and resiliency to the financial systems people support.
Ben Harrison:
Again, from CapEx I see increased spending in technology for firms like ours as well as RIA firms. I see probably a draw down in real estate. It’s going to take some time but I think that everybody is re-imagining who needs to be in the office, what the priority is for, how big your real estate footprint is. I mean, we’ve all got longterm leases, it’s going to take a long time. But I think for wealth management businesses that can be highly virtually-led and it’s going to change the way people think about it.
Ben Harrison:
And then from a human capital perspective, I’d say we’re going to continue to see firms look for talent and they’re going to look for more diverse talent with everything that’s going on in the marketplace. And they absolutely should because we are very… It’s not a balance right now in terms of those that are working in our businesses and having the proper diversity, and there’s going to be a major focus on that. That’s going to be a big emphasis as well.
Ryan Morfin:
Yeah. I think I saw somewhere in one of the industry rags that your parent company just put a huge chunk of capital into your tech spend and so it looks like you guys are definitely doubling down on the digitization trend as well. Well, one final comment on pricing. I know there’s been the pricing war. What are your thoughts on where pricing goes in this industry? Is it more a la carte? Is it subscription-
PART 1 OF 4 ENDS [00:11:04]
Ryan Morfin:
… where pricing goes in this industry. Is it more a la carte? Is it subscription-based? How does the pricing model change? What’s becoming the flavor du jour for RIAs today from a pricing standpoint?
Ben Harrison:
Sure. We think the evolution of pricing is actually in the very early innings. We were one of the first firms to come out with an innovative subscription-based pricing model. And the reason we did that is because the historic pricing model has been driven by the retail players, right? So essentially, the RIA model has adopted a retail brokerage type of environment, and we don’t think that that is in alignment with the model for the future of the wealth management ecosystem. So it hasn’t been completely… all of this hasn’t found its way through the entire process yet. So again, I believe we’re in the early innings right now, but at the end of the day, clients want transparency. They want access to the best possible services, solutions, and technology for an appropriate price. They don’t want to be judged on the products that they use. They want full, open architecture to a wide variety of products and solutions that don’t necessarily compensate the custodians for those services. They should have an open, kind of level playing field, and they want the ability to pick and choose those as they go.
Ben Harrison:
So I believe we’re going to move towards more of a bundled approach as we go forward, so that’s why we like the subscription model. You get what you pay for. It’s a flat fee. You get full access to all of the products and services on the platform. You get access to a higher yielding cash sweep vehicle once we hopefully return to a more normalized interest rate environment. So it’s going to be an evolution, but there’s no question it’s got to change. And the prices are going to be compressed, and there’s going to be a bright light on what is actually free and what is provided for a value.
Ryan Morfin:
Well, you bring up a great point. Net interest margins are solo. Very quiet on the interest rate front. Are you guys underwriting that this comes back? You think interest rates normalize in the next few years, or do you think it’s going to be a long period of low rates?
Ben Harrison:
Well, we just heard from Powell last week or the week before that they’re not going to move for the foreseeable future. So I think that we’re going to run our business knowing that we’re not going to depend on interest rates coming back in any time in the near future, and that’s how we’ve always thought about our business. And frankly, we like our position because we don’t want to depend on one sole revenue model or lever in order to maintain our viability as a company. So we are going to manage it to that extent that we’re in this for the longterm.
Ben Harrison:
And advisory firms have to think of the same implications for their business. I think that a lot of people are thinking right now about the fee for asset type of model, which is obviously growing in the wirehouses and it’s growing in the RIA space tremendously over the last 10 years, and there are implications to that. We had a pretty good bounce-back in markets, but the first quarter everybody took a big hit because of that.
Ryan Morfin:
So the advisors that you talked to, and I know you guys have a very active pipeline, what are some of the concerns they have, besides the markets, the volatility? From just actually running their business, what are some of the concerns right now for having people move to an independent model?
Ben Harrison:
Sure. So the current environment that we’re in, actually firms that we work with on our platform or other prospective firms that we’re talking to or advisors in the wirehouse environment, et cetera, they’ve been very resilient and have been able to adapt to this environment, especially the independent model. Mainly operate in a cloud-based environment, able to move to a digital remote environment very easily. They can utilize our infrastructure as an outsourced vendor to help them with resiliency, and we’re the backbone of it so they heavily depend upon us. So that allows them to be very nimble and flexible, so that’s been fine. The BAU type of environment was accomplished very quickly in this pandemic.
Ben Harrison:
What consistently I hear across the board is while everybody feels good about their resiliency and their ability to serve clients, growing is a pain point right now. It’s how do I find new clients if we’re going to be in this environment for a really long time? The old model of financial advisory was go have in-person meetings, get referrals from clients, do events, meet people at the country club in your local towns. All of that is completely just evaporated for now. So we believe that it’s going to continue, even when we emerge out of this, that kind of a digitally led, virtually led type of client experience is going to have to be adopted. So you’re going to have to have a much more articulated marketing plan around how you’re going to generate leads via social media versus the traditional ways in which you historically had. So it’s really around growth right now that I think everybody’s worried about and all really thinking about, okay, how do we do this in the new normal? And the new normal is going to be here for a long time.
Ryan Morfin:
And I think the new model around client engagement and lead gen is going to be a tremendous one that a lot of advisors are going to have to figure out. We’re definitely working a lot on those fronts with our tier-one advisors to try to help them figure out the right path forward. The other strategy is M&A, and I know you guys service a lot of big RIAs. Any thoughts on the RIA, M&A, or broker dealer environment from 2019 and what you think it’s going to look like a year from now?
Ben Harrison:
Yeah. So 2019 was a record year. Actually, last three to five years have been kind of a ramp up to that record of volumes. We don’t see it slowing down. And actually, even in this environment we’ve seen some fully digital or virtual fairly significant deals being closed that just kind of show that this can happen, a fully Zoom-led M&A environment. I don’t see it slowing. I mean, we obviously saw a little bit of a dip in the heat of the pandemic, but everybody’s having conversations. Scale still matters. We’re going to continue to see this play out, the generational shift play out. The advisory marketplace is still highly composed of founder firms, founder-led firms that are baby boomer generation that still need to transition their businesses to the next generation. So there’s going to be succession plan, and there’s going to be big, strategic acquisitions. We see many strategic acquires doing acquisitions, and we’ve seen the continued migration of this business from small practices to real businesses to now major enterprises that are beginning to infiltrate the independent wealth management marketplace. So we see continued growth in M&A.
Ryan Morfin:
We agree. There’s been all a few deals announced and more lenders coming into the space, too. A few big refinancings, including ours, consummated in April this year. So it’s bizarre to see, during all that volatility, there’s still an underlying investor demand for deploying capital into the space, and it’s a longterm trend that we’re pretty favorable on. One question I have for you is you guys are helping breakaways and RIAs build their businesses. How has your business development changed given the current posture we’re in? How is Pershing handling business development looking forward?
Ben Harrison:
Yeah. So we’re re-imagining that as well, and we’re doing virtual transitions. So we had a breakaway team just this week join our platform. We have a really strong pipeline of a number of teams that are going to be joining here in the not too distant future. And you’re seeing this start to pop, pop, pop across the industry right now. We’re starting to see an emergence of the teams that were kind of pent up demand in the pandemic now coming out launching their businesses. So from a transition standpoint we’re doing a lot of virtually-led, e-signature type of transitions. From a business development standpoint, I have to say, our team is more productive than they ever have been. Not to say that we weren’t productive in the past, but we did spend a lot of time on planes. We did spend a lot of time at conferences. We did spend a lot of time in meetings. And now we’re getting the full value of the day, and we’ve really seen an uptick in the pipeline and what that looks like. So there’s no question-
PART 2 OF 4 ENDS [00:22:04]
Ben Harrison:
And what that looks like. So there’s no question this is still a relationship based business and we still have to be back in person and having … really building, cultivating relationships, and trust and that’s going to continue. But I do think on the other side of this, we are going to see a slightly different model in terms of business development, where we’re doing all the things that we’re telling an advisory firms that they need to do. It’s got to be led digitally. We’ve got to invest in social. We’ve got to invest in paid digital media, we’ve got to do video, we’ve got to do these types of webcasts and podcasts. We’ve got to have an omni channel type of approach to get to our very targeted audience and that’s going to evolve.
Ben Harrison:
And what I tell my team all the time is it’s a level playing field. Everybody’s operating under the same conditions. It’s like a blizzard condition in a football game and both teams are playing in the same environment. And we need to recreate what that looks like. And it’s actually exciting. It’s new things to talk about. It’s new ways in which to approach the business. And for those that are energized, there’s a tremendous amount that we they can do in terms of thinking about the future and really defining the process.
Ryan Morfin:
No, it absolutely is a level playing field like you said, and I think it’s the organizations that can recreate new strategies and do growth experiments are going to be the ones that can really outperform and grab market share. And that goes from the custody landscape, to RAs, to broker dealers, to the advisors. You mentioned something about succession earlier and you guys have talked a lot about it in the press as well, and it’s an industry issue. What are your thoughts … some of your more sophisticated RA clients, what are their thoughts and your thoughts about G2, the next gen? How should we as an industry be approaching, building a deeper talent pool? What are some thoughts that Pershing has on that?
Ben Harrison:
Yeah. So we are absolutely committed to the next generation and really getting those involved very early in the process and focusing on development. We have a next gen leadership council within Pershing that we have our next gen lead. And they invite a cohort of next gen leaders within advisory firms to participate with us and go through some of these issues. And it’s really interesting how many firms … the financial business in general has never really embraced younger professionals, Silicon Valley has and they’ve definitely taken advantage of that. And we’re starting to see a shift, but it’s really interesting that many advisory leaders believe that the next gen really can’t run their company as well as them. And that’s got to change, that mentality has to change. And the way that we’re going to change it is through development and really committing to provide resources to the industry and get young people involved and ensure that they have a career path, and that this is a great business to work in.
Ben Harrison:
And one of the ways that we can do that is around diversity, as I mentioned earlier, and that’s a key component of this, that folks coming out of school can’t just think of the financial advisory business as being a sales job and going out and having to get your own book of business via cold calling. It’s got to be a career path about how you learn, and develop yourself and a process of continuous learning in the space. And it’s a great business to be in. So we take it really seriously. I just took on this new role and it’s been years in the making in terms of a succession plan. And when I joke around with my team here, I was in the job that I had previously for five years before I just moved into this one. And in the first meeting that I had with my manager at that time, he started talking about, “Okay, we’ve got to get you ready for the next job.”
Ben Harrison:
That’s unbelievable in terms of you just get a job and they’re already talking about, “Okay, what do we need to do to get you to the next level?” It’s like, “Well, can I do a good job at this one for a little bit of time?” But that’s the mentality that you’ve got to have.
Ryan Morfin:
Yeah, Mark did a great job, but it seems like you’ve come into the role seamlessly and it just shows the depth of the team there at Pershing. I think the communications are so … the normal that Mark had and now you’ve kind of got thrown into this new environment. How has communication as a leader changed to not only your employees, but also your clients? How have you taken … has it been a different approach or has it been always the same approach? How are you handling client communication?
Ben Harrison:
So the way that we’ve been handling client communication is when we think we’re over-communicating or that people are sick and tired of hearing from us, we say we should be doing more. And that’s what we hear from our clients. Everybody’s hunkered down. And there’s really a thirst to communicate into here what’s going on. One of the things that we’ve quickly recognized, at the beginning we needed to over-communicate and let our clients know that we were safe, secure, resilient, and able to support their business. And then it moved quickly to the focus on their businesses and what they’ve really asked us for and embraced is hearing from their peers, what the firm down the street is doing, how they’re dealing with different challenges in their business. There’s this kind of connection that they need to have. So we’ve been over-communicating, we’ve been communicating in multiple channels via email, via social, via video.
Ben Harrison:
I send out videos to our team. We do Zoom calls. We do high interaction in virtual. And then also we take a break from that because people get burned out on that. And if I look at my calendar all day, I’m on video call after video call and then boom, there’s a dial in call or one-on-one where we’re not going to do a video. And it’s almost like a vacation. It’s like, “Okay, I get to take a little bit of a break here.” Video is definitely more engaging, but you have to have variety in your communication as well. So we think about it a lot and we’re erring towards the side of over-communicating everything I see in the advisor community, RAs, really we’re nimble, and flexible and communicating with their clients.
Ben Harrison:
And that’s a big benefit of the independent model too, is you didn’t have to wait for approvals and can we do this a new way? And can I get this approved? You can just go out and do it and run your business the way that the marketplace demands you to do so.
Ryan Morfin:
Do you think that it’s going to be harder to maintain, or build or grow culture if we’re all working remotely? Or do you think that … I think it’s hard. You’ve got a current existing team that you guys have all been working together, but to bring somebody from the outside in say three or six months later, and they’re starting their job, working from home, do you think there’s going to be diminishing returns for, I’ll call it the intangible asset from culture, will it be harder to maintain that you think in the future for the industry?
Ben Harrison:
Could be. We’ve onboarded employees in this environment. It’s actually going quite well. We host a virtual town hall. We introduce the new employees. I think actually this environment has amplified the need for people to be empathetic, to really kind of peel back some of the facade to be a little bit more casual in this environment to see into people’s homes. You’re in my basement right now. This is our home office. To hear people’s dogs in the background. And at BNY Mellon Pershing, there’s been a really strong message from the top of the house about people first, about ensuring our people are safe, secure, and supported, and that message is actually helping our culture significantly and bringing people together. So even in a virtual environment, yes, it’s going to be really hard.
Ben Harrison:
And do we all want to get back to a more normalized environment where we can spend time face to face? You bet. And there’s going to be challenges, but there’s been some of these silver linings that have helped people get a little bit more personal in their relationships in the workplace that actually are going to benefit us in the long run.
Ryan Morfin:
No. I agree. I think it started off as working from home, but now I think that the empathetic phrase is now, “You’re at home working.” And I think people are really appreciating the humanization of their peers and even competitors and things like that. And no, I think it’s going to open up a new work life balance, but I think culture is going to be an interesting conversation point for firms to maintain.
Ben Harrison:
And I’ll say one other thing just a quick note on that is flexibility is one of the underlying things that I have heard across the board people desire. It’s not that people don’t want to go back into an office environment, we’re all clamoring for that. We want that in person experience, but the idea of maybe having some flexibility and knowing that you can still get your job done in a variety of-
PART 3 OF 4 ENDS [00:33:04]
Ben Harrison:
… in knowing that you can still get your job done in a variety of different elements is eyeopening for everybody.
Ryan Morfin:
Yeah. And I think that’s going to be a critical future, new normal hiring issues. How flexible were you in the pandemic and how flexible do you plan to be in the future? But we have seen an increase in productivity from our staff as well. And I think it’s that maybe lack of commute time or, more focused presence, because there’s nothing else to really go out and do, has had some silver linings. And so what are other silver linings that you see, whether it’s in our industry, or in the US economy today? What’s your outlook and where are you optimistic?
Ben Harrison:
Yeah, I’m tremendously optimistic, I think that this has proven, if you were to ask any of us New Year’s Day, what we would be doing in June. And the fact that I would say, “Well, I’ve been working at home now for a hundred days and we’re onboarding and we continue to onboard clients in a virtual world. We’ve got over 95% of our global workforce, which is approaching 50,000 employees at BNY Mellon working from home. And we did it with almost without missing a beat”, we would all be amazed.
Ben Harrison:
And I think that one silver lining in all of this is that we are amazed and we know now that we are capable of things that we had no idea that we were capable of. And that’s in our business, that’s in our personal lives, that’s in our economy. And there are significant challenges right now that we all face in the world around socioeconomic challenges and everything else that’s coming at us. But I am optimistic, because I know that we can get through it and we can be better on the other side. So that’s really the silver lining.
Ryan Morfin:
And not that this is not a silver lining, but what are your thoughts on Reg BI and how is that going to change our industry going forward do you think?
Ben Harrison:
Yeah, so I think that there’s still a lot that we have to learn about Reg BI and the longterm implications. It’s definitely putting a focus on, again, the fiduciary, the advice model and acting in the best interest of a client and putting more of a bright light on those items. It’s still not clear as to, at the end of the day, if clients really understand it and the way that they’re going to interface with their, or interact with their financial advisor. There’s implications for firms to ensure that they’re prepared for it. And they have all the policies and procedures and the way that they’re going to do their CRS forms and present their services to their clients, so early innings. And it’s going to definitely keep the compliance teams busy.
Ryan Morfin:
Yeah. It’s going to be, like you said, early innings and probably going to require some tech spend that people hadn’t thought about yet. We’re really looking at how we can make the process painless, but making sure we’re capturing all the blotters, and the advice that’s being given out.
Ryan Morfin:
Well, at our firm, we have a concept, internally and externally we’re calling the summer of self-improvement. Besides work, have you picked up any new hobbies, or picked up any new skills, or are you doing anything with a little bit of extra time, you have the, you don’t have to commute.
Ben Harrison:
So I’ve got two young girls, a soon to be ten-year-old and a soon to be eight-year-old here in the next two weeks. Their birthdays are going to happen. And we’ve, we’ve planted a garden and we’re starting to get a yield. So we’ve got a lettuce and I saw that we’ve got some zucchinis coming and some tomatoes, so that’s been exciting. And the girls like to see that emerge and we’ve become quite the badminton family. We’ve got a badminton net and the first couple times it was pretty tough, we weren’t clearing the net. And now we’ve got spirited, two on two battles going on in the backyard. So it’s been fun.
Ryan Morfin:
People don’t realize, badminton it’s a fast sport. The bird flies around quickly. That’s good exercise. The gardening as well. General McChrystal was on one of our leadership series and he was mentioning, a good leader is like a good gardener, cultivating and harvesting people. And I thought that was a really interesting metaphor. And I started a garden too. The yield has been good, but we haven’t not killed all the plants yet, so we’re working on it.
Ryan Morfin:
Absolutely. Are there any books that you’re reading right now, or are there podcasts, or newsletters that you read to shape your macro view on our industry, or macroeconomics?
Ben Harrison:
Yeah, it’s interesting, I get so much of my news source via social media channels. So I follow all of the trade publications and CNBC and Barron’s and Wall Street Journal, all of that online. The Facebook feed, an Instagram feed, any other social channels, Twitter. Twitter is one of the things, that was the best way to get any sort of coronavirus updates in your local community, from your mayor and see how many new cases are coming and what the story is. So everybody is now engaging on Twitter and following a number of sources.
Ben Harrison:
I’m reading, you brought up virtual culture. That’s the type of articles and focuses that I’ve been focused on. And I’ve been reading Shoe Dog by the Founder of Nike, Phil Knight.
Ryan Morfin:
Oh, that’s great. That’s a book on my list. I’ll hopefully get to it this summer. Fantastic. Well, Ben, I really appreciate you joining us. Looking forward to continuing the conversation and thank you for sharing your thoughts about the changes you see on the horizon for the industry.
Ben Harrison:
Great. Thanks so much for having me, Ryan.
Ryan Morfin:
Have a great day.
Ryan Morfin:
Thanks for watching Non-Beta Alpha. And before we go, please remember to subscribe and leave us a review on Apple podcasts, and our YouTube channel.
Ryan Morfin:
This is Non-Beta Alpha and now you know.
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