M&A Trends in Wealth Management W/ Bryan Staff Managing Partner Merchant Investment Management.

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Ryan Morfin:

Welcome to Non-Beta Alpha. I’m Ryan Morfin. On today’s episode, we have Brian staff, founding partner at Merchant, an RIA Aggregator talking to us about M&A in our space. This is Non-Beta Alpha. Bryan, welcome to the show. Thanks for coming on today.

Bryan Staff:

It’s great to be here, Rye. I’ve been wanting to get on this for a while with you right now, so it’s exciting. And you and I always have good conversations, so ready to rock and roll my man.

Ryan Morfin:

Well, I appreciate you coming on the show. Merchant’s been very active across just a bunch of different parts of the RIA landscape, and you guys have been announcing deal after deal. What about the Merchant platform is creating the success that you guys have had this year, and hopefully in the years to come?

Bryan Staff:

Well, we started in earnest back in 2017. And the genesis of the firm, and the success that you’ve acknowledged, and that I think that we’ve had over that period of time up until present, is really result of the people that we have in our firm. I came back from Bear Stearns in 2006, and took over a firm that my father and Peter Purcell, and several of other partners started back in the late eighties, which was PKS or Perse Kaplin Sterling. And over that period of time, and as we grew that firm that I hold near and dear to my heart. I think it’s one of the most wonderful companies out there in PKS. We had the opportunity to work with a lot of the luminaries in the space, and that’s where I came to work with David Mrazik, who’s one of my partners, one of the managing partners of the firm, who was one of the architects over at Focus Financial, was their general counsel, and head of M&A. Tim Bello, who was one of the earliest partners at Dynasty.

Bryan Staff:

We have Matt Brinker now, who came from United Capital, and really was one of the leaders in that firm, and building out the M&A machine. And you marry that with several of my other partners who I’m really so lucky to work with, Marc Spilker and Scott Prince, who are our executive chairmen of the firm who had very long and distinguished careers at Goldman Sachs at Apollo Global. And I think that when you take that institutional leadership, and you take leadership that’s been in the independent space for such a long time, you know a lot of people, you know a lot of the different constituencies, certainly on the custodial side, on the tamp side, on the IDD side. And I like to think that we caught lightning in a bottle. I just love the organization that we’ve built, and love the people that we’re working with and the companies that have allowed us to invest in them.

Ryan Morfin:

Well, if you look at M&A, Q3 was another record quarter. Are you seeing transactions continue to accelerate? Is it a buyer’s market or a sellers market? What’s the landscape for M&A today?

Bryan Staff:

It’s interesting. Rye, you know this, you understand it very well. It really all goes back to a couple of things, one is capital. The industry is a wash-in capital. I believe people know where the puck is going, and the puck is going to the institutional independent wealth management space. And when you have capital at your disposal, it’s fungible. And it can be put into the highest return generating businesses. And right now, RIAs are being run by very smart and intelligent people that can generate very solid returns. So Ryan, to your point, low interest rates, capital that is absolutely available. You have it in the hands of a lot of very smart organizations.

Bryan Staff:

And so then you start getting into, is it a buyer’s market or is it a seller’s market? I think that evaluations, as a lot of people that you’ve had on the program are stretched. But one person’s views on evaluations are stretched can be offset by someone else’s, who believes that they are appropriate, and that goes back to capital. Is it long-term capital? What’s it being used for? Are you looking to flip it over five years? Is leverage in play? And so what I would say is that I believe that smart money will put their capital to use in an inappropriate way, over a tenor that they believe is going to generate the returns for them, that are matched most closely with how long the whole period is. I will say that I think it’s probably still a seller’s market if being done for the most appropriate reason.

Bryan Staff:

If you are looking to exit the business, you’re going to have to validate the multiple that you’re looking for, because you’re the reason why the multiple is stretched. If you’re looking to sell minority equity, there are firms out there, like Merchant, that would love to speak with you. And make a determination on, if your goals match the goals of, the capital providers. So I don’t think that M&A is slowing down by any respect. I think that market forces right now are certainly in favor of transaction volume and velocity. And I think entrance into the independent space are going to continue. And that’s going to feed M&A activity. Look Rye, no one knows economics better than you. And, demand and supply are what feed a market. And this market is being driven by supply of capital, demand for good businesses to invest in. And there clearly are a significant amount of businesses that are entering the space. So this isn’t going to stop anytime soon.

Ryan Morfin:

I tend to agree. And what are some of the common, maybe mistakes that a seller, as they’re prepping their business to, go to the beauty pageant or to attract a partner like Merchant, what are some things that they need to think about or mistakes they make in their preparation?

Bryan Staff:

Again, let’s bifurcate the question. So, it depends on if you want to sell a hundred percent of your firm, or if you’re looking for a minority investor. If you’re looking to sell a hundred percent of your firm, then you must have already put in place a succession plan. You must have scalability. There needs to be a second generation in your business, if the acquirer is financial. If it’s a strategic acquirer, like another RIA, then you want to make sure that they’re able to most easily integrate into your practice, that the cultures are similar, and that your clients will stay with that firm. Because if someone’s going to buy a firm like that, and if they’re financial, or if they’re strategic, they’re certainly going to want to make sure that there’s longevity in cash flows. That you have other business lines that are going to make sure that there’s beneficiary retention there. That you have insurance and protective services.

Bryan Staff:

And that you’ve spoken with that second generation of investors, because that’s going to determine, and that’s going to get you the highest multiple. Now, something that’s closer to to my side of the ball game and to my partners, if you’re going to look for a strategic or a financial or a hybrid buyer for your practice, that’s more on the minority side. Now, they’re going to want to look at a few things. One, does the management of the business have in place the ability to grow? Because you’re selling a minority position in the firm. They’re investing capital for what you sell. You better make sure that the investor that’s coming in can aggrandized the practice greater than the amount that you’re selling. They’re going to want to make sure that the growth is going to be greater than their particular cost of capital.

Bryan Staff:

So, they’re going to want to look at your business. Is it built for scale? Are you able to integrate and acquire? Is your organic growth predicated upon things that are exogenous to the market? So, we’re going through an unprecedented period right now, as we all know. There’s certainly is going to be volatility in the markets, are your underlying portfolios data long? Or have you thought about being non-correlated to the market? Have you thought about peak to trough? Have you thought about your alpha, and how are you going to drive alpha? There’s a lot of different ways to do that. Non-correlation, tax, inorganic growth, and a whole host of others. So, when it comes to the sale of a business, it’s going to be predicated upon sell everything, or sell a minority interest. If you’re selling a minority interest, you absolutely will want to have thought about how to scale out that business, and most appropriately picking the right partner.

Ryan Morfin:

And it’s been fascinating to me. You guys have made a strategic investments in-service providers to help strengthen the average RIAs bench strength, if you will. On what I’d call niche employee hires, that not every RIA makes. Maybe you can talk a bit about that part of the ecosystem you guys touch.

Bryan Staff:

I appreciate you bringing that up, it’s important. And just like any business, when we established ourselves, and we were lucky enough to partner with, and invest in around 15 RIAs over the first couple of years of our 10 year in the business as Merchant. We had to sit back, and be very introspective. And say to ourselves, “Okay. We think that we’ve got the P in the P and L taken care of, these are growing businesses. They’re going to generate good returns. Hopefully we’re doing something similar for them from a return perspective.” But what about the other side of the income statement or the P and L? How are we ring fencing risk? One of my partners says, “Worry about what can be done to you as well as, what can be done for you.”

Bryan Staff:

And We sought out some of the best, providers of services to independent wealth management firms to ring fence risk. Our first investment was in a firm called Advisor Assist. And, this is a group of individuals, Christopher Winn, and his team at Boston, that in my opinion, and in our partner’s opinion run really one of the best firms out from a compliance and a regulatory perspective. They work with upwards of 500 RIAs, 500 wealth management firms throughout the industry. They have a very good understanding, and a beat on what’s happening at the SEC, what are the best practices that wealth management firms should be following to make sure that they’re in good standing. If they’re in hybrid practices, and again, this is something that you and I know very well, and we have to concentrate on what’s going on, on the FINRA side? And how are they managing their business from a fiduciary standpoint, to make sure that they’re in good standing in all sides of the regulatory environment?

Bryan Staff:

You start thinking about compliance and regulatory, and then you say to yourself, “What about financial best practices? And that’s where we started working with and made an investment in a firm called Compass CFO Solutions. It’s run by a friend, and a long-standing individual in the industry. His name is Damian Lo Basso. And what they do is they work with wealth management firms in RIAs, to make sure that the day-to-day, the week to week, the quarterly financial best practices of a firm are in place. They work with them to set up appropriate books and records, billing, accounting, and have a very good understanding of how an RIA works with the custodians, works with tamps, insurance companies and carriers. And marries a proprietary platform that they built several years ago with an accounting structure, to make sure that these firms are appropriately and adequately making sure that the cash flows of the business are there, and are being run profitably not for the benefit of just themselves, but for their clients.

Bryan Staff:

We also work with a firm called RIA Works, run by Becca Knauss. Really the best of breed transition services firm, because when you’re going independent, whether it’s inorganic growth and tuck-ins, or a new build firm, you want to make sure that you can get the clients and the assets migrated, and do that appropriately. And there’s no one better than Becca, who does that. And finally, we work with, and we’re an investor in a firm called Wealth Advisory Growth Network. The two partners, the two principals of that business, Jay Hummel, and John Phoenix. Longstanding executives in the space. John, obviously being an executive at Envestnet. Jay running his own wealth management firm, and they, themselves have gone out and invested in businesses, and set up compliance, regulatory, accounting, and infrastructure, really using the Merchant ecosystem to build out their own wealth network.

Bryan Staff:

And we’re very lucky to be partners with all of those firms. But just to your question to round it out, Rye, you have to be invested in the risk side, as well as the profit, and the revenue side. If you want to appropriately have longevity in this space. And that’s why we made investments in those businesses.

Ryan Morfin:

No, that’s important. And a lot of RIAs just don’t have the scale to develop those resources. And so sharing those by collaborative expense, cost structures, I think is really smart. But you mentioned transition services. And so what do you think is going on at the wirehouses? They pretend not to care about the steady drum beat of people walking out the door. Do you think they’re in denial? Is it strategic? What are your thoughts about why breakaway brokers keep going independent?

Bryan Staff:

This is about to change. And, we’ve been doing this for a long time. I joined PKS back in 2006, and the one thing that always surprised me was that something that should be so clear, and right in front of your face, it wasn’t being ignored at the wirehouses, but I was just surprised that they were allowing for this continuous movement of advisors to independence. On one hand, you have to just be pragmatic. They take pride in their business. They take pride in the fact that they believe that the captive structure is appropriate for what still is a massive aggregation of individuals that the wirehouses have. But that being said, what has happened over time and without making this a longer conversation that it needs to be, what I always say is that, there’s been three massive occurrences in the market that have driven people to independence.

Bryan Staff:

The first was in 1998, where long-term capital failed and Wall Street had to bail them out. And that was the first time that clients had to really say to themselves, “Hmm, is my money is safe as I think it’s going to be in that captive wirehouse model? And is there an alternative?” Then there was 2001, where you had an exogenous event again, which led to the shutting down of the financial markets, and people having to wonder, “What’s going to happen to my money, even though it’s in Street name when the markets open back up again?” And then the third is obviously the 2008, 2009 financial crisis. Which really was a springboard for advisors to go independent. And then surrounding all of that, is a technology infrastructure that really can mirror that, that happens at the wirehouses. And that allows for independent wealth management firms to offer everything to their clients that they were getting at the wirehouse side.

Bryan Staff:

So, I don’t think that I would never say that the leadership on the wirehouse side is obtuse, or is not seeing what’s going on. Quite the contrary, I think they’re very intelligent. And what I will say to you is this, just wait for what happens over the next year to three years. The wirehouses all have clearing and custody businesses. You saw news on Goldman, and you’ve seen rumblings at Wells Fargo/first clearing. You’re going to see many new entrance into the market on the clearing side, and the custody side. It’s going to come from the institutional space and you’ve seen, the recent integration of TD into Schwab. So what used to be the big three in the independent space is going to become the big five, and then the big seven, IDDs are going to get into the ball game. People are going to become a lot more pragmatic, and open architecture is not just going to be products. It’s going to be clearing, custody and capital market services. So it’s going to be an interesting, Rye, over the next couple of years as they get into the space from that perspective.

Ryan Morfin:

I’m glad you brought up Goldman. So, it seems that they bought United Capital. They’ve got Eiko, Folio. They keep moving in this path towards acquisition. What are your thoughts? Are they creating an independent version of what Morgan Stanley once had as a captive model and just saying we’re going in a different direction and trying to maybe start recruiting out of Merrill, Morgan Stanley UBS.

Bryan Staff:

It’s an interesting question. And it’s one that we have all the time. One of my partners was in the executive role at United capital, and two of my partners since the very beginning, held significant leadership roles at Goldman. And we have ongoing conversations about this. What I would say is this, Goldman’s private wealth group, alongside Eiko, which is a homegrown firm up here in upstate New York, is really second to none in the management of client assets. With portfolios that are on the much larger side. I will say that, I have several friends that have been recently hired by Goldman. And they are incredibly well versed in the independent custody and clearance space.

Bryan Staff:

So, given the trajectory of the business, given the acquisitions that they’ve made, and given the individuals that they’ve hired, I don’t see how you could think otherwise that they’re not going to come into the independent space. That they’re going to do it in a smart, intelligent way, because that’s what Goldman does. And they’re going to be a player in this industry over the next couple of years. Absolutely. What form and shape that takes is up for debate right now. But I think that we’re going to see it materialize over the next year.

Ryan Morfin:

So, Goldman also’s bought Marcus, and built out Marcus through their GE Capital accounts acquisition. So it seems that they’re really going after Main Street. But Morgan Stanley also just bought E-Trade. What are your thoughts on that? That’s an interesting acquisition as well.

Bryan Staff:

Yeah, it is. Morgan Stanley’s acquisition of E-Trade, everyone has the discussion that they’re looking more on the fund side, the institutional side of E-Trade, but look, I’ve been, in the industry for a while. I know several individuals who are running the E-Trade institutional platform for independent RIAs. I have a little less of an understanding of where they want to go, with the E-Trade acquisition. But if current trends hold true, they certainly have a tip of the sphere into the independent space. They absolutely have a business organization that touches every facet of the retail side of the business, and Main Street. These firms both over the last couple of years have gotten into the retail banking side.

Bryan Staff:

And I know for a fact that having access to the discount window, and having access to FDIC insured banking services is an access for cheap capital. And cheap capital, like we spoke about in the beginning of this conversation, it’s what’s driving the M&A velocity, and the evolution of this space. So I probably have a shorter answer to the Morgan Stanley E-Trade question than the Goldman question and the other custody questions that you have, but it certainly wouldn’t surprise me given the human capital that they have over there on the E-Trade side, that they make a beeline for retail and for the RIA space. And that they’re a key player over the next couple of years, certainly.

Ryan Morfin:

And it’s interesting to me. Merrill and they got the edge program. It looks like Merrill BoFA is going to have to make an acquisition of some type, to even out the landscape, or do you think they’re going a different direction?

Bryan Staff:

It’s tough to say. Some days I think that it’s Merrill Lynch, and the wealth managers that are driving the strategy over there. Other days, I see it as the bank of America side. What I will tell you is that, banking services and capital market services are absolutely going to be married with wealth management going forward. It’s going to be interesting to see how they roll that out, if they roll it out into an independent model going forward. But I certainly can see, and I’ve seen this with Merrill Lynch teams who have gone independent, that the one thing that they are absolutely cognizant of, is replicating the banking, the lending, and the capital market services that they have with [inaudible 00:24:26] in an independent paradigm.

Bryan Staff:

And I think that, that holds true and needs to be pervasive for the entire industry. 10 years ago, banking and capital markets were not as important, but with clients utilizing their underlying accounts, collateralizing them with lending services for their clients, with larger clients coming into this space with family office services, being paramount, and being built out on the custody side. That’s an area that independent wealth management has started to focus on. And by the way, I think they’re doing a really good job of that. Replication of the wirehouse model in an independent organization is something that we’re all doing very well now. And that evolution is going to need to continue if the velocity of advisors going independent is going to continue. Which I believe it will.

Ryan Morfin:

I think that niche, upscale service offering that Singaporean private bank model is going to definitely need to be scaled out for the survivor firms to compete. So, I tell people, I say, “We’re in a FinTech war.” FinTechs are raising a ton more money than the wealth management firms these days. What are your thoughts on the FinTech landscape? And do you look at FinTech firms as potential future competitors for acquisitions of wealth management revenue?

Bryan Staff:

Maybe. What I would say is this, I have a tremendous amount of respect for the firms that you’re talking about with the capital that they’re raising, and that’s raising the bar in the space. Open architecture is only as good as the FinTech that you can build internally or outsource externally as a wealth management firm. Domestic and international capital markets capabilities are 100% credicated upon the pipes that you’re putting in place to access the managers, and the banking services, and the protective services that are necessary to service clients. So, it’s like we were talking about it in the beginning of the conversation, capital is fungible, capital is coming into the space, and that’s driving the growth in M&A. It’s also driving the growth in FinTech, and its ability to work with and marry those services with wealth management firms to best service and clients.

Bryan Staff:

Now, that being said, there is a point of diminishing marginal returns. And you and I talk a lot, I respect and I appreciate economics and statistics, and where they come together to a significant degree. And I just wonder sometimes, when you look at the confluence of all of the different FinTech that’s out there, if it’s not a crowded trade. And I’m just interested to see how this plays out because for you to be successful and drive returns, you have to be able to differentiate yourself. And there comes a point in time where there’s just this amorphous group of FinTech firms that are doing the same thing. And capital allows for firms to compete away value. Look, you’ve seen it, Ryan. I was having this conversation with a buddy of mine from Bear Stearns way back in the day.

Bryan Staff:

And it’s applicable to FinTech. In 2006, when I left Bear Stearns, I was in investment banking and financial sponsors. I wasn’t directly in the capital market side, but that’s when you had equity sales men and women, and you don’t see them anymore because that job has been competed away. And the same thing started to happen on the fixed income side. There’s decimalization, there’s growth in these firms, there’s dark pools and you can trade any type of security whenever you want at any given point in time, you don’t need to pay an individual to help you do it. And I think that the growth in FinTech has led to the growth in independent wealth management. I’m just not so sure that you need as many of them. So that’s either going to lead to one of two things, consolidation or disintermediation. And some of them are just going to go away.

Ryan Morfin:

And it’s interesting as scale, and this consolidation occurs, it’s cannibalizing the client base for some of these FinTech firms. And it’s interesting to me that as they start to ratchet up their cost structure, or their revenue model into the space, there will be at some point, an intersection with a large firm, like a clearing firm or a large aggregator. Says you know what, you’ve now priced yourself into what you’ve mentioned, the insource budget where it’s cheaper for me to build it myself and insource solution. And so I think it’s going to be very interesting to see how that balancing act is achieved.

Bryan Staff:

You’re a hundred percent right. And by the way, you make a really good point. Outsourcing in our industry, in the independent wealth space is where it’s at right now. You do have to wonder to the point. It’s very astute, what you just brought up. At some point, does that become commoditized? Do you hire CTO? Just like people have hired CCOs as they’ve gotten bigger. And do you build that algorithm internally? So, yeah, it’s very interesting.

Ryan Morfin:

Or do a bunch of competitors get together and collaborate on shared corporate R & D. So we can standardize the model, if you will.

Bryan Staff:

Do you have, in other words, do you have Glass-Steagall, which was to financial services on the FinTech side of the business as mandated by the regulators? And that could certainly happen.

Ryan Morfin:

Yeah. And I think it would be good for the industry to have some standard output files. So we’re all doing, what I’ll call, the commoditized workflows in the same way. Now, I’m all for innovation too. But I do think there will be some platforms that start to collaborate on shared tech expense to compete, and reduce their cost structure. Well, Bryan, I have a few final questions. On season two, we called it, ‘The human factor.’ And there’s about six questions. They’re more, ‘yes or no’s. And they basically are just, similar questions that we ask all of our guests in season two. The first one is, if there was a COVID vaccine available today, would you take it?

Bryan Staff:

Today? No. Can I give you a follow-up to that?

Ryan Morfin:

Absolutely.

Bryan Staff:

Okay. I’m in upstate New York right now, and in the home of Regeneron. And what I believe in is therapeutics. And I believe in the first responders, and the doctors and the scientists. If I was wearing a hat, I would tip that to them. But, from my own perspective, I don’t think I would take the vaccine right now. I’d wait for it to play out, but I certainly believe in the therapeutics that are out there, and I try and run as much as I can and stay in as good a shape as I can.

Ryan Morfin:

Number two. Who wins the election, November 3rd?

Bryan Staff:

I think Biden wins it. By the way, I was wrong the last time. I’m not commenting on who I want to win. I’m telling you who I think wins.

Ryan Morfin:

Number three, what type of shape of an economic recovery are we in today? Is it V-W-U-K swoosh?

Bryan Staff:

It’s a dislocated economy right now. The financial markets are predicated upon monetary policy. Fiscal policy is going to determine what happens on Main Street. It’s scary to me. I really hope that November 3rd gets past us, because I think that a lot of the stuck in the mud type of fiscal policies are totally predicated upon politics. And I’d love for smarter things to prevail, and smarter people to prevail. And for us to start putting our heads together, forgetting what side of the aisle we sit on, and just being there for our friends and family.

Ryan Morfin:

Yeah. And I think that’s right. And whether it’s a clear victory going on with the other, getting rid of that partisan deadlock, so we can actually make a decision and start moving again. Well, anything that you achieved this summer that you’re particularly proud of since you’ve been in quarantine lockdown?

Bryan Staff:

It goes back to two things. As my mom reminds me all the time, as my beard goes from Brown to gray, I’m getting older. And that’s led me to two things. One is health, and don’t think that I didn’t see you, running with that Ultra Marathon runner and staying in shape, and that didn’t motivate me. So, I’ve been doing the same thing. I’ve been using it as an opportunity to work out. And two, and I think this is what a lot of people answer. It’s been wonderful actually to be home with my family. When I first started Merchant, my son was in the State Championship for the Little League World Series. And I missed two of his games because I was building a business, and I’ll never take back what I did with my partners back then, but I’ll never get back what I missed. And, it’s it’s been wonderful to be with my family during this period of time, even though it’s under tough circumstances.

Ryan Morfin:

Entrepreneurship comes with many types of costs and that’s definitely one of them. I totally agree though. That running video of me on YouTube with the marathon runner that was comic relief. So I’m glad it motivated you. Are there any silver linings that you see in the economy for 2021?

Bryan Staff:

Well, look we can talk all day about, FED policy, and what the treasury is doing. And I think where you’re going with the question, it’s more specific. And the only thing that I hope happens in 2021 is that, getting back to partisanship. I’d love for us all to start talking to each other again, I’d love for us to have a lot more pride in our country, again. I think that’s what’s missing. I almost think that it’s just become more appropriate to point fingers, and talk about what’s wrong with America, instead of all of the wonderful things that’s right with America. And I watched a lot of kids these days, and I watched the interaction with my son and with his friends. And what I’ll tell you is that people need to start interacting with each other, again. They need to start talking to each other. They need to start listening to different perspectives, and they need to start respecting one another.

Bryan Staff:

And if we can do that, I think that we get things back in shape next year. And I think that Main street can start benefiting from what Wall Street’s been benefiting from, over the last couple of quarters.

Ryan Morfin:

Yes, a returned to civil discourse. That would be nice. People need to realize you don’t learn anything from people that agree with you. Is there anything that you’re listening to reading or watching right now that is changing or forming the way you think?

Bryan Staff:

Yeah. And maybe this goes against the grand of what I just said to you. I’ve stopped watching the news recently, because it is so binary, Rye. I’ll just throw it out there. You watch CNN and you watch Fox. And, you really just can’t tell what reality is. And if people are looking at stories, and life in a linear way. So what I’ve tried to do is, I’ve tried to talk to a lot more people. We’re lucky enough at Merchant, to have over 20 wealth firms that we’ve invested in, we’ve lent to a lot of companies. We’ve got relationships with over 500 wealth management firms through our services business. And it’s amazing what you can learn in talking to entrepreneurs and business owners, and their end clients who live all over the country. And the stories that they can tell you about real life, which by the way, it really doesn’t mirror what’s happening on TV.

Bryan Staff:

So, it’s actually a very direct answer that I have. I’ve tried to talk to a lot more people, who have a lot different perspectives because they’re on the ground and they’re seeing what’s going on in real life.

Ryan Morfin:

That is so on point. And that’s part of the reason we started this conversation, this podcast as a channel of communication, so that people can cut through the propaganda, if you will. From either side to try to get some ground truth from people who are allocating capital. I appreciate you being on the show, I appreciate your insights. And I really look forward to seeing you soon in New York city or in Albany. And I appreciate all the good work you guys have been doing for the ecosystem. So stay in touch.

Bryan Staff:

You guys are family for me. You and everyone that you work with. And I wish you guys all the best, and I appreciate you having me on. And, I look forward to seeing you soon, buddy.

Ryan Morfin:

See you soon. Thanks a lot. Thanks for watching Non-Beta Alpha. And before we go, please remember to like, and subscribe on Apple podcasts and our YouTube channel. This is Non-Beta Alpha. And now, you know.

 

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