Blockchain Cryptocurrency & Smart Contracts W/ Ryan Orr Chairman & Co-Founder of Chronicled

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Ryan Morfin:

Welcome to Non-Beta Alpha. I’m Ryan Morfin. On today’s episode, we have Ryan Orr, the founder of Chronicled, talking to us about digital assets. This is Non-Beta Alpha. Ryan, welcome to the show, thanks for coming on.

Ryan Orr:

Hey, thanks Ryan.

Ryan Morfin:

Well, I wanted to ask you a little bit about blockchain and cryptocurrency and where it’s going and talk a little bit about your company on today’s episode. Maybe, could you tell us, where is blockchain today?

Ryan Orr:

Sure, yeah. We’re 10 years into what’s going to be a multi-decade renaissance with this new technology empowering a whole host of new blue sky type use cases and possibly also transforming mainstream financial services and many other industries like buying your tickets for an airplane or watch video content, could transform the backend of the file storage industry and be a real competitor to AWS and Google Cloud. So yeah, a lot is happening. It’s finally at a point where the projects and the teams are maturing, that we’re starting to see some real adoption and a big challenge the last 8 or 10 years. It’s been figuring out the infrastructure and with the Parity Substrate project, the Filecoin project, with things like Chainlink, which is a network of Oracle’s to connect real world data about weather or stock, trading histories on different stock exchanges into blockchain networks. A lot of that infrastructure now is available and so applications and things that you and I can experience on our mobile phones, new kinds of applications are really starting to become possible and I think the next five years will be very exciting in terms of the growth of the space.

Ryan Morfin:

You said the space is starting to mature. Is it starting to get a standardization in terms of approach and like you said, the infrastructure is starting to get systematized globally? Or is it still fragmented like the Japanese and Chinese do it one way, the Europeans and Americans do it a different way?

Ryan Orr:

Yeah, still highly fragmented and still rapidly evolving. It’s probably the fastest evolving technology space that I’ve ever been involved in in my lifetime. The generations from Bitcoin to Ethereum, SmartContracts platforms to revisions of Ethereum’s SmartContracts platforms. Now with Parity Substrate and Polkadot. The Darwinian competition and the half life of these projects has been very compressed and so it’s been frankly, a lot of carnage in the space as the next generation of technology is disrupting the prior generation of technology, which was only 18 months old and so yeah, still highly fragmented in that regard but we’re starting to see the building blocks of information sand maybe some real winner just beginning to emerge. Of course we have Bitcoin from 2009, 2010 and everyone knows about that but using the technology, its backend, might eventually become available through something like Charles Schwab, is still in its nascent stage.

Ryan Morfin:

I remember early on, electronic medical records or financial files, things like that, are all potential use cases. Maybe you could talk a little bit about Chronicled and how you guys are using blockchain to provide value to supply chain.

Ryan Orr:

Sure. You bet. So the way a supply chain works, you have, in the pharmaceutical industry, manufacturers of prescription medicines, then you have wholesalers, who have regional warehouses that keep thousands of SKUs, basically, in inventory. Then we have hospitals and pharmacies who are dispensers of prescription medicines and it’s a relatively standardized, routinized flow of you have the product moving down the chain and then you have all of these documents like POs and invoices and chargebacks and rebates and credit memos and recalls and then you have got a payments layer on top of that with payment for these products moving back and forth in the supply chain, typically via wire transfer with someone like JP Morgan. So with blockchain supply chain, we’re compressing all three of those layers and we can track the product moving, manufacturer to wholesaler to dispenser, all those documentary flows can be automated and then the credit transfers can be automated and basically keeping realtime credit for each of the trade partners in the supply chain and then they can settle up once per month or once per quarter via maybe conventional fiat currency transfers with JP Morgan.

Ryan Orr:

So basically automating the cross-company business processes, which used to be done by email and EDI and a lot of headcount in middle offices and back offices of these companies, so we’re creating protocols that are like business rule enforced standards that the blockchain is enforcing each transaction to follow the rules that the companies agree upon for all of these different workflows and yeah, the potential is to automate the backend of the supply chain of a major industry and potentially then many major industries.

Ryan Morfin:

And that’s interesting. I mean, I think I understand it but is that going to reduce headcount in some of these companies to make it more streamlined, it all lives in the cloud and it’s all encrypted so that humans can’t mess it up?

Ryan Orr:

Correct, yeah. It could be a significant efficiency gain for a company that might have hundreds of thousands of people reconciling manually chargeback transactions and if that’s automated… The last 10 or 15 years, a lot of the focus within corporates has been on efficiency within the four walls but cross-company business processes are still the wild west. There’s never really been a platform to automate across company because of the trust gap between the companies, so you had to do a lot of manually checking and verification as emails would come in, in invoice or PO or something but if that’s a protocol that’s blockchain enforced, we can automate the cross-company flows and trust the blockchain enforced [inaudible 00:07:16] rules and it’s a whole new efficiency gain for the big corporates that have supply chains.

Ryan Morfin:

So CFOs really need to get up the curve on this because this is going to really impact AR and AP departments in the future.

Ryan Orr:

Correct, yes.

Ryan Morfin:

Very interesting. I think it’s fascinating what could come of it. You mentioned earlier, settling up maybe once a month or once a quarter going from crypto to fiat but are cryptocurrencies moving, you think, in the next 20 years, 50 years, 100 years, to replace fiat and what’s driving that conversation right now?

Ryan Orr:

Yeah. That’s a great question. I think that we’re at a level of maturity with the technology that central banks are looking seriously are issuing digital fiat or digital tranches of the fiat currencies. Certainly China’s very far ahead in that regard and the whole conversation around a cashless society has really picked up momentum with COVID. Cash is quite expensive to move around and it can be dirty and can cause public health risks. A lot of people, at the same time, are quite nervous about losing cash in the society and that’s a whole different conversation but certainly in places like China, they’re sprinting aggressively towards digital, cashless and issuing digital tranches of the currency. That could be quite interesting from a systems management standpoint, say if you’re at the Fed, because you’d have visibility into that true velocity of money, all the transactions.

Ryan Orr:

If there were analytics available on the velocity of money through the economy… We can’t really see that today. The Fed doesn’t have data on how money flows through the economy so it’s hard to know what true economic activity at a micro level really is. There are these macro theories and then micro, black box, what’s getting on in the economy but if you had analytics, you could see that. There’s also the possibility to tax every transaction like a VAT in an automated way, and do away with the income tax, which would be much simpler. There’s also the possibility to do helicopter drops of currency from the Fed directly to everyone’s digital wallet in the society and to bypass the banks who take the big blocks of money from the Fed window and go off and trade it and use it to support hedge funds and you see the stock market go up every time the Fed prints money and you wonder about the linkage between those two events.

Ryan Orr:

So if the Fed was able to do helicopter drops directly to everyone’s wallet and bypass the commercial banking system, a lot of people think that that could be advantageous, or at least it would be a new method of quickly providing stimulus. In the case right now, they’re trying to drive inflation. This would do it because it would be-

Ryan Morfin:

Yeah.

Ryan Orr:

Yeah. So digital fiat is probably coming. Central banks are experimenting with it. China’s probably the leader to watch. There are a few other smaller economies. There was a bill, end of the Congress, I think a week or two weeks ago proposing such an idea. I don’t recall the number on the bill but I’m sure if you looked on Google, you could find it. It’s not couched as a cryptocurrency bill but this would be the technology that you’d have to use to implement such a thing.

Ryan Morfin:

What are the arguments for keeping cash? I mean it’s not intuitive to me. What are people saying about that?

Ryan Orr:

I think it’s people that don’t want to be monitored and Big Brother and privacy and fear of being totally locked into a system that if there was ever severe misuse of data about our transactional activity, that could be compromising to each of us as individual human beings. I guess liberty, freedom and trust of big institutions.

Ryan Morfin:

That’s interesting because I think the other side of the coin too is, how good is the cybersecurity and the encryption in the future where quantum computing may be not too far from the future?

Ryan Orr:

Yeah, there’s certainly concerns that in a quantum world, proof of work blockchain like Bitcoin, it might be possible to gain all the compute power on the network and do a 51% attack and basically compromise the integrity of the network. Up to this point, the defensibility of the Bitcoin network has been a huge investment in ASIC miners positioning those ASIC miners close to cheap sources of electricity and it’s very energy consuming, so you’d have to find either vastly cheaper energy or you’d have to vastly improve the speed of the computing and quantum computing would do that on the compute side, if you wanted to try to aggregate greater than 51% position in the network or just have a vast amount of money and buy your way in. I mean, it’s a multi-hundred billion market cap now so I guess… But the problem is, if you do that, if you try to buy Bitcoin it causes the price to go up, so it’s maybe much more expensive than it looks to just try to buy your way into a 51% position.

Ryan Orr:

So yeah, quantum’s a risk for sure. At the same time, within the community there’s a lot of work on post-quantum revisions to the protocols to basically extend the complexity of the cryptographic hashes and the different algorithms so that you’d need mini orders of magnitude additional compute that would keep up with the advances of the quantum compute race, if you will. So probably with the post-quantum cryptography, you can address that concern and transition through such an event should it occur.

Ryan Morfin:

I think that’s 100% right. I think as we move into the quantum age of computing you’re going to have that compute power to also come up with new technologies for cryptography. How far are we from that, do you think? How far are we from the dawn of quantum computing? Do you think we’re close by?

Ryan Orr:

You could check out Rigetti Computing and join their mailing list if you want to track that project. There are a couple of other projects that are quite advanced as well. You hear of things that vary in tone from, we’re quite advanced to, we’re still early days. I’m not an expert in post-quantum, sorry in quantum computing, apart from kind of just reading in the consumer news. I’ve a few friends that are invested in the space and track these projects closely. So I hear a little bit from them sometimes. But even from them it’s kind of hard to discern if we really are making substantial progress and headway or if it’s still kind of fundamental R&D that we’re doing. For example if you’re trying to build a quantum computer on the theory of…

Ryan Orr:

There’s a theory that was created that was the basis of the atomic clock in the way that you keep time with a zero or a one with crystals. That same approach can be used to create zeros and ones at kind of a quantum level and a whole new basis for the computer. Is that R&D actually progressing so that you can harness that new method of creating zeros and ones? Or are we kind of somehow stuck in some part of the process of rebuilding the very base level of the computer? It’s something to watch. I can’t share much more than that.

Ryan Morfin:

Well what about… You sort of mentioned China, that they’re ahead of us in terms of central banking and digital currency. What are they doing? What makes them ahead of us?

Ryan Orr:

They have national programs that recognize the potential of blockchain. That kind of in conjunction with very large monopoly players like WeChat, ubiquitous use of WeChat through the society for payments, for e-commerce. I think they’re just more programmatically focused on exploiting this new technology advantage in the society, in the economy. Or at least experimenting with it at scale. And so compared to the US where we’ve got a patchwork of regulation, a lot of crypto experiments maybe at an individual company level but nothing to the kind of programmatically coordinated… Maybe not to the same extent coordinated in a programmatic way with large governmental institutions.

Ryan Morfin:

And that’s possibly because they’ve got central planning to some extent. Do you think we should do that as a government here in the US? Should we try to create some standards around this to take advantage of it? Or do you think the private sector is going to have to get organized to try to embrace the productivity gains from this?

Ryan Orr:

I think that the government probably should get involved, if this is a direction that the world is moving, going beyond just the regulatory function through the SEC and the CFTC and the other regulatory agencies to actually experimenting with the technology, becoming familiar with what it can do. Starting to build expertise and hiring personnel with real technology expertise. It’s coming and so you probably don’t want to have your head in the sand.

Ryan Morfin:

That makes a lot of sense. That makes a lot of sense. Well you mentioned you want to be near cheap energy if you want to do mining or quantum. But doesn’t Bitcoin consume a lot of energy? How is that maybe healthy from a climate standpoint? Can that be synergistic?

Ryan Orr:

Yeah, Bitcoin does consume a huge amount of energy. With climate risk and sea level rise and so forth upon us, it’s not clear that Bitcoin’s a healthy contributor. Unless all of the energy sources that were running the Bitcoin network or true renewable energy, if we’re hooking up Bitcoin miners to coal fired power plants, there would be a direct contribution of the Bitcoin network to greenhouse gases and so forth. So I think Bitcoin could be a clean, green network. It could be a very dirty network depending on what types of energy sources are being used. The positive thing about the Bitcoin network is I think it creates a great incentive system to innovate on lower cost forms of energy. Because if you have cheaper energy you can mine more Bitcoin. And so in the same way that the DARPA Grand Challenge was an incentive system to drive an autonomous vehicle across the desert in Nevada about 10 years ago, and that led to the whole autonomous driving movement, which is becoming a real thing now, the incentives created by the Bitcoin network, I think will possibly lead to real positive innovation and low cost renewable energy.

Ryan Orr:

The old public utility model, with guaranteed 10% return on the rate base, that was not an incentive system for innovation in terms of cheap capital base to create cheap, low cost, renewable energy. It just wasn’t an effective incentive system for where we want to go with humanity. Bitcoin may be a DARPA Grand Challenge or Nobel Prize type of incentive.

Ryan Morfin:

That’s fascinating. That’s fascinating. It’s a byproduct because it’s going to drive really wealth creation by getting your energy costs lower than the competition. That’s very interesting. That’s very interesting. So can you talk a little bit about proof of stake, blockchain models and what’s an alternative to proof of work models?

Ryan Orr:

So proof of work does use a lot of energy. It’s also part of the security of the network, because it would be hard to replicate that much energy to 51% attack or to create an alternative network that would be as secure. So it’s a very positive part of the security model but moving beyond proof of work, there are different proof of stake configurations that have been experimented with for five or six years now that are really gaining adoption and usage and basically, it’s a protocol whereby all the different holders of the token are staking the token and that contributes to the security of the network and in return for providing that staking function, which contributes security to the network, the protocol pays those individuals some protocol inflation or yield and so you can actually make 5 to 10% cash yield, which is a lot better than a municipal bond or a treasury bill, for providing this valuable function of staking your crypto token to contribute to securing the network. Yeah, there are probably a dozen or two dozen projects yielding north of 5 to 6% for providing this stake.

Ryan Morfin:

What does someone have to do to provide that service, a staking function to help the security of the network?

Ryan Orr:

Buy the cryptocurrency, run the software to basically stake the currency from your wallet and typically that involves running a full node or being connected to someone that’s running a full node to be able to perform the staking. Maybe in some cases, a little bit of IT expertise.

Ryan Morfin:

Given that the security’s evolving, getting better, do you think cryptocurrencies and digital assets are a good investment opportunity today?

Ryan Orr:

The space is certainly continuing to grow. I’ve been following it closely for almost 10 years and we’ve been trying at Chronicled, to leverage blockchain for real world use cases and applications but I’ve certainly been watching this wild west of cryptocurrency evolve and go through many different stages of Darwinian evolution and it’s a space where the growth rates for some of the projects can be a lot like the returns of investing in oil and gas or mining exploration or pharmaceutical drug discovery where there are many different examples of 50X, 100X returns on early investors into projects. It also tends to be highly volatile, however, and so you really have to manage that volatility risk carefully. There’s also, frankly still because it’s very much a wild west type environment, in projects around the world and those can be accessed from an Internet portal, so it’s not like a single regulatory regime.

Ryan Orr:

You can access things that are regulated in Malta or in Seychelles or Hong Kong or Singapore or other parts of the world and you may not necessarily, as a retail investor, know what you’re getting yourself into and so certainly you can find plenty of Ponzi schemes and rug pulls and frauds and you read about then every day on CoinDesk and you do need to be very careful.

Ryan Morfin:

It’s interesting, Square and Jack Dorsey came out with some news, can you share that with our viewers?

Ryan Orr:

So Square just committed a substantial portion of their corporate treasury reserves to Bitcoin as a new component of the Square treasury. There have been a couple of other companies that have made similar announcements. I think if that picks up as a trend, that likely drives the Bitcoin price quite a bit higher. I think that there could be, with US dollar environment, with additional stimulus, the dollar could drop down another leg if people are flocking to gold. There’s been a lot of talk if Bitcoin… if corporate start to put 50, $100 million blocks of treasury reserve into Bitcoin, that would be the impetus, I think, for our next move up.

Ryan Morfin:

What are some of the top coins globally that you think are the most stable or the most sought after?

Ryan Orr:

The top 10 is always evolving, just like the Dow, the top 30 on the stock exchange continues to dynamically evolve. Ripple has been a big project with connecting all the banks with XRP cryptocurrency. The Ethereum project is, I’d say, quite beleaguered now trying to launch Ethereum 2.0 but from a performance and scalability standpoint, it’s really struggled. The new kid on the block that could be a replacement to Ethereum is Parity Substrate with Polkadot network, which if you want to get into the nitty gritty technical, you could look up the concept of heterogeneous sharding, which is in contrast to Ethereum’s homogeneous sharding model and possibly that’s a pathway to mass scalability and high performance of all the different apps running in the Polkadot ecosystem.

Ryan Orr:

The EOS projects is another project that’s tried to offer an alternative to Ethereum with better performance characteristics but it still, I think, edges 30 or 40 transactions a second. You can go on their blockchain explorer and keep track of how the network is running from a transaction per second standpoint. I think Ethereum’s down to .4 transactions a second now. It’s a far cry from thousands of transactions per second that you’d need to run mainstream economy use cases. So its infrastructure issue has been beleaguering, slowing down the progress of the space. Let’s see is Parity Substrate with Polkadot, the interoperability of many different blockchains in an ecosystem to support many different use cases can be a solution. Other projects that are exciting.

Ryan Orr:

A lot of people like the Algorand project from a staking standpoint. It provides a staking yield. Filecoin just launched and could be the backend of file storage. It’s exciting because in the present model, all the people that want to use a music file would probably have it locally, unless it’s streaming of course, but traditionally a lot of files end up with 100 different people all have the same copy of the file. Basically Filecoin allows us to have a single content addressable address on the network for a file and then hundreds of people can all access it from that location. It’s really a sharing model for sharing files and has a huge amount of momentum. It launched just a couple of days ago. It’ll be really interesting to see how the ecosystem evolves. If you go on YouTube, you can watch probably 100 different videos that the Filecoin community have created over the past 30 days. I mean the pace of app development within this ecosystem, I think there are probably 400 different storage miners.

Ryan Orr:

To contrast it with Bitcoin, it’s proof of work mining [inaudible 00:29:43] electricity, in the case of Filecoin, you have to prove that you’re storing files and prove that you’ve continued to store the files in order to win the block reward and you’re actually doing a very valuable function for society as opposed to just consuming energy and so a lot of people are really excited about Filecoin and it being a really positive way to secure one of these networks in terms of doing something useful for humanity, which is incentivizing sharing, which in a selfish world is not easy to overcome. It’s not easy to overcome selfishness.

Ryan Orr:

So if you have one of these networks incentivizing sharing, you get compensated for contributing to a network that facilitates sharing of files and content and maybe eventually you can meter access with micropayments to video or to other types of files and you’d end up with a whole new economy for accessing content on top of Filecoin. Maybe eventually a whole new component of the Internet that would be tens of thousands of websites that would run on this decentralized backend without file servers where you can have censorship on a file server, you can have Big Brother watching, Google, Facebook, surveillance economy that people are nervous about, could all of that be replaced with a decentralized backend and a whole new way of building websites on a whole new decentralized backend. The company that’s trying to offer a gateway to the Filecoin network to quickly and easily host a website on this new decentralized backend is called Fleek. F-L-E-E-K. The other two infrastructure providers in this network that are really catching on, one is called Textile and the third is PowerGate. I’ve myself wanted to dig into all three of those in the next week or two to learn more about what they’re doing and what role they could play.

Ryan Orr:

It’s been really amazing, Ryan, the pace of evolution in the last year or so. The 2017 kind of boom in crypto is largely investor driven and maybe the 2001 bubble in the Silicon Valley community with the .com bubble and the stock market. If you think of the 2017 bubble as similar to that 2001 .com bubble and then after that, 2002 to 2007, a lot of the big companies on the Internet like LinkedIn and Facebook were born and then you had the scaling time for companies like Google and I guess Amazon and Ebay and so forth. I would say we’re kind of in that same, maybe 2000… In some ways, we’re in 2001 to 2007. In other ways though, we’re still earlier than that because the infrastructure’s still getting sorted out. So yeah, it’s a really messy space but certainly it’s coming along.

Ryan Morfin:

That’s a fascinating question. We’re either in post DARPA, the Internet is just being born, or we’re in the late ’90s. Is it one of those tow scenarios?

Ryan Orr:

Yeah. I would say we’re certainly somewhere between 1989 and 2004. Different parts of the stack are at different levels of development and if you end up having to redo the whole infrastructure layer because we’re not delivering performance and scalability, that sets back all the application layer stuff but the progress is being made on the application layer, such that when the infrastructure gets figured out, it’ll just be rapid explosion of progress, success, potentially adoption. The other part of the space to watch is the whole identity piece. I mean the big role the banks played was keeping bank accounts for account holders and doing KYC and onboarding humans into the financial system. So in the crypto markets, you basically have dozens of small companies that are figuring out how to do identity verification. It’s called KYC, know your customer. And anti money laundering verifications and using AI on the backend to review people’s social presence and so forth. To confidently onboard individuals into these networks. Eventually that just replaces the role that the banks play altogether.

Ryan Orr:

I mean the banks are using the technology and have contributed to innovating in this area I suppose as well but the banks contributing to it plus the need for it in crypto, there’s going to be some really big success in the identity area. As an investor, I think I would watch closely who those early winners are in terms of aggregating user base because those likely become very, very important players in these new networks.

Ryan Morfin:

Very interesting. Very, very interesting. So the crypto market, you said it’s a few hundred billion of market cap. How big do you think it gets in the next five years?

Ryan Orr:

A trillion?

Ryan Morfin:

And if the banking system start to embrace it or China starts to issue digital tranches, is this a way for China to maybe move past the US dollar hegemony that we have today in international trade and oil prices?

Ryan Orr:

Yeah, there’s been speculation that this could be a strategic maneuver in terms of maybe breaking the strength of the dollar. I’m not sure I’ve seen any validation of that idea yet. I think that a lot of people like to hold gold. More people are holding Bitcoin in concert with gold as a [inaudible 00:36:14] value in terms of protecting against inflationary monetary policy. I think that digital tranches of the currency probably start in a relatively… Let me pause there. I’ll turn it back to you. We [inaudible 00:36:40] just three or four minutes. I was going to go into something that would take a little longer, so-

Ryan Morfin:

Well maybe we’ll have you come back on and explain that next piece. No, I think it’s interesting from an asset class, Schwab, Fidelity, all the big custodians are starting to embrace digital assets and figure out how to custody these assets. We had a speaker on from London who does a lot of the custody of digital assets. As you guys are creating that infrastructure layer and the protocols of the winners, we’re starting to see the banking community and the custody community start to dip their toe in the water, I guess, because a lot of clients are holding it and they’re holding it all over the place, so they’re trying to get a standardization. It’s interesting. It’s definitely top of mind. I think the SEC is starting to put together some regulatory frameworks for financial advisor and wealth management firms of how we should be interacting with these assets and so there’s still a lot of to be desired from a government standpoint. I’m hoping the government does come in with at least some visibility, embraces the industry, brings people like you in to help write the laws that will govern it but it is definitely a growth asset class.

Ryan Morfin:

I was going to ask you, we have this final part of the show here called the human factor and it’s where we go ahead and ask you six questions real quick. They’re usually yes or no but if you want to put some context around your answer, by all means. So the first question is, would you take a COVID vaccine if it was available today?

Ryan Orr:

If it was through stage three trial and it was science supporting it, yes.

Ryan Morfin:

Who do you think wins the election in November?

Ryan Orr:

I think Biden’s probably the favorite at this point.

Ryan Morfin:

What type of economic recovery are we in today? Is it V shape? U? K?

Ryan Orr:

Gosh. It’s V so far but it’s very hard to predict what the next leg is going to look like and that’s going to be driven by stimulus and Fed action and that’s ultimately a congressional negotiation and may depend on the election.

Ryan Morfin:

I totally agree with that. Is there anything you achieved this summer that you’re particularly proud of while you’ve been on quarantine?

Ryan Orr:

Doing a lot more hiking and spending more time with the family.

Ryan Morfin:

Where are you hiking at?

Ryan Orr:

San Bruno Mountain is a lovely hiking spot. I go out to two or three of the other State Parks in the Bay Area. Yeah.

Ryan Morfin:

That’s awesome. Are there any silver linings that you see in the US economy for 2021?

Ryan Orr:

I think that the economy hasn’t quite functioning. Because we’re all at home, people feel that things have changed so dramatically but people are still buying food, they’re still doing the essentials and the basics. Some people have been affected by COVID but for the most part, 99. Something percent of people are healthy and contributing to this digital economy through these devices that Apple and other providers have made available to us. It’s a very different kind of an economy and I think more study needs to go into what has become the economy but I’m actually kind of less [inaudible 00:40:25] that just because behavior has changed, that the economy has been wrecked or ruined. I mean people are still smart, they’re still engaging in entrepreneurial activity.

Ryan Orr:

It’s evolving and shifting, surely, and a new digital core of the economy is becoming the backbone of it but I mean, if we all lived in outer space and we all lived in space colony type housing and we didn’t have shopping malls and you couldn’t go out, that would be, I guess, a place where the kind of an economy that we have now would… It would be normal and so maybe it’s partly our own human expectations about what the economy should look like based on what it’s looked like in the past and we’re evolving as a species. Our economy is evolving. The same number of smart human beings with creativity an economic activity, it’s all still there.

Ryan Morfin:

There’s a lot in that answer to unpack but that’s a whole other show. We’ll maybe take you up on that. That’s fantastic stuff. Anything you’re watching or reading or listening to today to help you form your global view?

Ryan Orr:

I’ve always been an Economist reader. I love to read CoinDesk. Maybe those are the two that I spend the most time on.

Ryan Morfin:

Do you listen to a podcast or are you still reading books? You listening to books?

Ryan Orr:

I do a ton of YouTube videos.

Ryan Morfin:

Interesting.

Ryan Orr:

Yeah, I’m constantly on YouTube every day.

Ryan Morfin:

Are you watching technical discussions about different technology conversations or philosophy? What are some… That’s the first answer I’ve had for YouTube videos.

Ryan Orr:

All of these blockchain projects have communities and the communities are releasing videos and so that’s… The old idea of industries I think will be replaced by the new concept of ecosystems and ecosystems built around networks and so YouTube videos is becoming kind of a leading way for the people that are establishing these networks, establishing these ecosystems, to put content out and communicate and yeah, if you want it straight from the founders and creators, that’s where you go and they’re [crosstalk 00:43:05]-

Ryan Morfin:

Fascinating.

Ryan Orr:

… as well.

Ryan Morfin:

Well, Ryan, what’s the website? Where can people find you and follow you online?

Ryan Orr:

Chronicled.com is the business that I’m working with a team of co-founders, I’m building. I have a personal Twitter. I’ve never been a big Twitter user but I guess you could always contact me there.

Ryan Morfin:

Fantastic. Ryan, as usual, every time we talk I learn so much. This was fantastic. I took a lot of notes. I’m on page 10 right now. That doesn’t happen often but this is an emerging space and I think people in our industry need to wake up and start to pay attention to it. Thank you for coming on and sharing a little bit of your insights.

Ryan Orr:

Hey, yeah, you’re welcome. This was a lot of fun. Look forward to the next chance to connect and interact. Really admire what you’re building with Wentworth and anything that I can do to help your team or network, look forward to doing so.

Ryan Morfin:

Thanks a lot. Speak soon.

Ryan Orr:

Take care, bye-bye.

Ryan Morfin:

Thank you for watching Non-Beta Alpha and before we go, please remember to like and subscribe on Apple Podcasts and our YouTube channel. This is Non-Beta Alpha and now you know.

 

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